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  • lifelongcampers
    replied
    As someone already said join EAA.org and one of the perks of membership is Ford X plan. I bought my last 2 trucks that way. Another nice thing is the dealer cannot charge you any document fees either. It will be just the plan price, sales tax and state license fees.

    Leave a comment:


  • pappy19
    replied
    Sorry for the delay, but here are a few statistics that I came up with. These numbers came from Ford dealers in the Boise, Idaho area. I will use 2 different trucks:

    1) 2011 F-250 4X4 XLT CC-Short bed V-8 GAS sale price $43,330 + sales tax=$46,000, with $5,000 down and finance the remaining @ 4.99% for 72 months= a monthly payment of $636, lease the same vehicle for $436/month and buy it at the end of the lease for $23,325.

    2) 2011 F-250 4X4 XLT CC-Shortbed V-8 Diesel, sale price $46,665 + sales tax (6%)=$50,000, with $5,000 down and finance the rest @ 4.99% for 72 months= a monthly payment of $700, lease the same vehicle for $500/month and buy it at the end of the lease for $25,150.

    Take your pick.

    Pap

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  • pappy19
    replied
    For members Frank Henn and Bkins, I am sorry if I offended you. Please do not read the next few posts that I will make regarding leasing. I plan on calling both Ford and Chevy and do a comparison on leasing vs buying using $5,000 as down or trade-in value and see where this leads. Again, Frank Henn and Bkins, please do not read my posts as our conversation is over for you two, but I expect that there may be some members interested in seeing the results. Until then, keep well.

    Pap

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  • Bkins
    replied
    Originally posted by pappy19 View Post
    I see you drive a Chevy and I am not familiar with the GM leases but they should be competitive with Ford I would think. Maybe you should check it out and report back what you find out. Just do a "what if" scenario and see what they say.

    Pap
    I have when I bought my truck and it didn't work out even close. I keep my equipment much longer then most so a lease is not even close not to mention also having a payment of one type or another.

    I am another one who is done with conversation. If you feel it works for you---fine. It doesn't work for most unless they want to drive more vehicle then they can afford.

    David

    Leave a comment:


  • pappy19
    replied
    I never had any difference in my insurance for a lease or buying, you are paying insurance on the value of the vehicle regardless of the situation. You do have asecurity deposit if you have never leased before, around $500, but once you have a successful lease(with Ford anyway), then the security deposit goes away. You get it back at the end of the lease anyway and can apply it toward the vehicle if you purchase it. Interrest rates on leases are fixed and are usually lower than a bank loan for the same thing. The "0" interest loans may be effective but when you throw in the sales tax on $60,000, then again, leasing may be a better option. I worked all over the US and I always went with a Ford Red Carpet lease. Some banks do leasing and match all of the lease conditions that Ford has, but with a bank lease you must bring the vehicle back to the bank at the end of the lease. If you don't move around, then a bank lease may be better than the Ford lease. With a Ford lease, no matter where you are you can take the vehicle to the local Ford dealer to turn it in. If you are buying it, doesn't matter where you live, you just complete the paper work to buy it through your local credit union or whatever. Again, if you decide to lease for 2 years and pay the entire 2 year lease up front, then you get another discount on the interest rate. I see you drive a Chevy and I am not familiar with the GM leases but they should be competitive with Ford I would think. Maybe you should check it out and report back what you find out. Just do a "what if" scenario and see what they say.

    Pap

    Leave a comment:


  • Bkins
    replied
    Hi Pap.

    I am not closed minded on leasing. Every single time I have looked at the numbers they have not worked to my favor, at all. Most leases have a security deposit involved and a bank fee involved to create the lease. Also to be safe there is more insurance involved and its very hard to get a great interest rate on the lease. Most of these things are predetermined by the leasing originator and are not changeable. If it works for you that is great. Every finanical expert will tell you its the most expensive way to be in a car or truck, bar none. It is expensive even if you have a way to help write some of the costs off. I guess they are wrong.

    Good luck with your leasing and if it make sense to you go for it.

    David

    Leave a comment:


  • pappy19
    replied
    There you go again, you're not listening. When you lease you are basically paying for the depreciation of the vehicle for the 2-3 years of the lease term. You can put as many miles on the rig and make any changes that you want. At the end of the lease you just buy the vehicle at the lease end agreed upon price. Over mileage and modifications mean nothing if you buy at the end. If you buy it new and don't lease, especially if you borrow, then it will generally take 5 years(or more) just to break even on your loan to value. A lease is just another way to buy a new vehicle without getting into a rig that may not in the end suit your needs. Even then, if you have alot of miles or have added 5th wheel hitches, etc., and you don't like the vehicle, just buy it from Ford(or whoever) at the residual price, and then sell it on your own. I don't get out of a vehicle every 2-3 years, more like 5-6, maybe longer. I just buy most of my vehicles at the end of my lease. My wife's vehicles we have turned some back in (one 2000 Expedition was a pig), and the other was another Expedition, a 2005 where the residual was way more than the NADA value of the vehicle, so we turned it in and leased a new one.

    You need to have a good lease man at your favorite dealer show you on paper that even if you could pay cash for the new rig, you are still beter off leasing for 2-3 years and then buy it at the end. It saves you money and if you get a lemon, you can either sell it or turn it back in, can't beat that IMHO. Don't be closed minded, I was against leasing too, but when I saw it on paper, I was convinced.

    Pap

    Leave a comment:


  • Bkins
    replied
    Originally posted by pappy19 View Post
    Most all of the above is a bunch of bull. Here's the real deal. First off, you negotiate a lease just like you would if you wanted to buy. I will use a Ford lease as an example since I have been using Ford leases for 20 years. A lease basically pays for the depreciation for your lease term-2-3 years. If you live in a sales tax state, you only pay sales tax on the monthly payment. Take a $60k sticker and a lease on the invoice will be hundreds less per month. Even if you could pay for the vehicle up front, lease for 2 years (pay for the lease up front, that's another story) and you'll save even more. The Ford lease says at the end you have a choice of buying the vehicle at a set price(usually 50-55% of the sticker price) or turning it in. Even if you go over the annual mileage, if you buy the vehicle there is no mileage penality. So if you have taken care of the vehicle and love it, just buy it at the end of the lease, there is no penality for over mileage. If you hate the vehicle and don't want it, you can either still buy it(at the lease contract price) and sell it on your own, or just pay the mileage penality and turn it in. Chances are even paying the over-miles charge you will still be better off than if you had bought it and try to trade it off upsidedown. Now, if you are really smart, you take out a second on your home and pay the 2-3 year lease up front. You will get another discount from Ford for doing this. Then your payment on your house(instead of to Ford) is tax deductable. If you have the money to buy the truck with cash, pay the lease up front and put the difference into an annuity or stock fund for 2-3 years. Any way you cut it, a lease is so far superior to buying on credit or buying in cash it doesn't make sense not to lease instead of to buy. I have leased Ford trucks in the past where I have used the minimum mileage(12,000 miles) for each lease year since I knew I was going over anyway. I felt that after the lease period was up, even if I hated the truck, I would buy it at the lease-end price and sell it on my own-again-no mileage penality. I have never had a bad experience leasing with Ford. Basically you look at what your buying payment will be using a down or your POS as down, and then ask what the buy vs lease payment will be, making sure they include the sales tax amount included. You will lease every time, I have and would do it again and again, it's a no brainer.

    Pap
    You are entitled to your opinion, but that is all it is. You must be a ex banker or loan oringinator of some sort. If a person doesn't get out of their vehicle every 2-3 years its not even a argument. A lot iof people keep their vehicles and the cheaper way is to buy them outright or take out a loan, pay it off, and then drive the vehicle. Its not even close let alone taking out a loan on your home to get rid of the lease at the end. In my opinion, yes there is that word again, your way of doing things is why our lending markets are in the shape there in with foreclosures and all. Its called living over your means. If you are comfortable in doing things that way fine, but don't make the statement that its the best way to do it. What are you going to do with the holes in a truck bed from putting in a hitch? What do you think the cost of a new bed and paint is? That would be added to your cost of a lease also. If you do the math for keeping a vehicle for 5-10 years you would see how costly a lease really ends up being.

    The only way a lease works is if you want more vehicle then you can afford and want a new one evey 2-3 years, and you take care of it, and you are limited at how many miles you put on it.

    No Thanks.

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  • frank henn
    replied
    Congrats on keeping your milage under the 12K a year. >It still is not for everyone. I have seen people get into serious trouble leasing a unit that wasa not right for them. I have had young people that leased them that owed 20,000 dollars at the end of there lease you might know a little on Fords lease but you have not read the fine print in it. This conversation is over

    Leave a comment:


  • pappy19
    replied
    Most all of the above is a bunch of bull. Here's the real deal. First off, you negotiate a lease just like you would if you wanted to buy. I will use a Ford lease as an example since I have been using Ford leases for 20 years. A lease basically pays for the depreciation for your lease term-2-3 years. If you live in a sales tax state, you only pay sales tax on the monthly payment. Take a $60k sticker and a lease on the invoice will be hundreds less per month. Even if you could pay for the vehicle up front, lease for 2 years (pay for the lease up front, that's another story) and you'll save even more. The Ford lease says at the end you have a choice of buying the vehicle at a set price(usually 50-55% of the sticker price) or turning it in. Even if you go over the annual mileage, if you buy the vehicle there is no mileage penality. So if you have taken care of the vehicle and love it, just buy it at the end of the lease, there is no penality for over mileage. If you hate the vehicle and don't want it, you can either still buy it(at the lease contract price) and sell it on your own, or just pay the mileage penality and turn it in. Chances are even paying the over-miles charge you will still be better off than if you had bought it and try to trade it off upsidedown. Now, if you are really smart, you take out a second on your home and pay the 2-3 year lease up front. You will get another discount from Ford for doing this. Then your payment on your house(instead of to Ford) is tax deductable. If you have the money to buy the truck with cash, pay the lease up front and put the difference into an annuity or stock fund for 2-3 years. Any way you cut it, a lease is so far superior to buying on credit or buying in cash it doesn't make sense not to lease instead of to buy. I have leased Ford trucks in the past where I have used the minimum mileage(12,000 miles) for each lease year since I knew I was going over anyway. I felt that after the lease period was up, even if I hated the truck, I would buy it at the lease-end price and sell it on my own-again-no mileage penality. I have never had a bad experience leasing with Ford. Basically you look at what your buying payment will be using a down or your POS as down, and then ask what the buy vs lease payment will be, making sure they include the sales tax amount included. You will lease every time, I have and would do it again and again, it's a no brainer.

    Pap
    Last edited by pappy19; 06-12-2011, 03:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • frank henn
    replied
    People have done it, I leased one to a person thats all it did and they towed about 10,000 miles a year the rest of the time it sat at the end of their lease they came out money ahead to purchase it and sell it. This is a rare case

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  • EDT
    replied
    Who is going to lease truck to tow a 5th wheel

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  • frank henn
    replied
    leasing is not for everyone, if you keep a unit for many years than it is not the way to go. if you put a lot of miles on a unit the fines are a major issue. Most leases run 36 months at 12,000 a year. the average person down here drives 20,000 miles a year thus you have an 8,000 mile overage, times 3 equal's 24,000 miles the last I knew most penalties ran .15 a mile comes out to $3.600 in penalties also they will charge you for tires if they are over 50 percent warn and they have a set guide lines of minor dings any thing over that scale you pay for, and if needed a new windshield you can get charged for that also. Now you can buy extra miles but in reality it still is going to be added to the cost of the unit. Remember all of these are done through a finance company and all have a residual value. Four years ago when gas went so high the Trucks SUV and several other took a major hit in the market place. A lot of banks that did the leasing and GMAC and Ford Red Carpet took major loses Some got out of that area of the business GMAC had to be sold and is now Ally Bank Which had a major government bail out to stay in business. Now having gone through all of this if You own a business in a lot of cases you can write the whole lease off Check with you CPA before you do this as the tax laws change. Ps there are two type of leases out there closed end lease when you just turn the car in paying what ever penalty's are owned. The other which is a little more high risk is an open end lease this is where you bet that the value of the car is higher than the residual value, and you pocket the difference on the other hand if it is lower than the residual value than you pay the difference

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  • norty
    replied
    Originally posted by pappy19 View Post
    For any of you thinking of a new vehicle, I highly recommend leasing instead of buying. If you have a problem with this, just let me know and I will show you that leasing is the ONLY way to go, even if you can buy one with cash.

    Pap
    I would like to hear your logic. I convinced myself along ago that for a private person like me, who buys and keeps a vehicle for at least 10 years, that leasing is not the way to go.

    Has something changed?

    Leave a comment:


  • pappy19
    replied
    For any of you thinking of a new vehicle, I highly recommend leasing instead of buying. If you have a problem with this, just let me know and I will show you that leasing is the ONLY way to go, even if you can buy one with cash.

    Pap

    Leave a comment:

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